Whether you are an Ubuntu user or a Windows user, this post is aimed to compare Ubuntu 11.04 with Windows 7 in every aspects… So let’s start a positive debate between them. Your view/idea is very important for this discussion so add your opinion through comments.
I ‘ve been using Ubuntu on my computer, from the last 2.4 years (Although I started with Windows Vista, and now I am using Windows 7 in triple boot mode, along with Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) and 11.04 (Natty Narwhal) ), and I don’t Windows in general (exceptional case : like playing games). There are lot of reasons why prefer Ubuntu over Windows or any other operating system, and of course you will notice few of them, in the comparison table.
Update 1 : Two new rows added !
Update 2 : Two more rows added! (Thanks to Conualfy for his/her comment!)
| Points | Ubuntu 11.04 | Windows 7 |
|---|---|---|
| Control | Since Ubuntu is an open source software, you can customize it as you want..There is no limit on the level of customization because the source code is available to use as you want (under GPL). | it’s an proprietary software so forget about the source code and full customization. |
| Cost | it’s completely free to use and distribute! | Not free! No way, how can you think of that ? |
| Fun | Ubuntu is complete fun! probably due to fact that there is always something new and exciting thing/stuffs try, just for Fun! | You will get bored because there is lack of new things, so it feels like ‘got trapped in a box’. |
| Learning | Ubuntu or any other Linux based Distros is excellent from learning point of view, specifically recommended for those who are interested in learning about modern Operating Systems (OS) and want to understand how it works. | Forget about that, it doesn’t make any sense here. |
| Security/Virus | STOP!!! Ubuntu or any Linux based OS are virus free!, because it doesn’t work on the Ubuntu platform (probably due to the reason that most of the viruses were targeted to Windows and GNU/Linux is secure by default) so using ubuntu means that we are entering into the Virus free zone. | Virus is one of the greatest threat to Windows based OS..and some one said – Windows and Security do not appear together – in a single sentence. |
| Diversity | There is always new things waiting to try – e.g if you don’t like Gnome desktop, try something different such as KDE or XFCE or LMDE etc..it’s very flexible or in other words – modular. It has some desktop optimized for old hardwares while on the other hand you can enjoy 3D desktop effects with your new computer and graphics Card. | There is nothing new on this side! choose something from the Menu and go on!! |
| Softwares | A lot of free and open source software are available right there – in the Software Center or package Manager; just select and install in moments. Whether you are a student learning – “how to program” or a developer (desktop based software or web Apps), Ubuntu has better compiler (GCC, G++ etc), IDE(Eclipse, NetBeans), editors (gedit), Terminal (Bash) and all the tools you need. For programmers the apps are good but most common desktop applications – open office, Evolution Mail etc. sucks! | Some proprietary softwares are good such as – Microsoft Visual compiler/IDE, Windows Live Writer, Microsoft word,One Note, Adobe Photoshop etc, but you can get an equivalent open source software for Ubuntu. E.g Gimp instead of Photoshop, Open Office in place of MS Word etc. In short, Windows has better commonly used Applications but a lack of programming tools and Apps. Windows Console sucks! (On the other hand bash Terminal is far better, powerful and Fun!) |
| Ease of Use | GNU/Linux has very bad reputation if we consider this point (probably due to the fact that initially Linux based OS were used by only geeks who couldn’t think about non technical users), although Ubuntu is the most simple and easy to use – Linux based distro, it is difficult (for common desktop users) to use as compare to windows 7. File permission, root … irritates a lot to a normal desktop user. | Windows 7 is very simple to use! as compare to Ubuntu 11.04 or any other Linux based distro. |
| Stability | Ubuntu 11.04 or any other version of Ubuntu has very high frequency of releasing new versions which makes it very unstable and there are always a lot of crappy bugs waiting to fix. so it doesn’t seem – suitable for production/personal environment, even though LTS (Long Term Support) versions can be used in production environment. | Windows 7 is very stable as compare to Ubuntu 11.04, so well suitable for production environment. |
| Drivers Compatibility | Ubuntu has a lot of compatibility problems when it comes to device drivers e.g Graphics Card drivers, Webcam drivers… | All device manufacturers releases the driver software for Windows 7 so there is no compatibility issue in this case. |
| Start Up Time | Much Faster! | Slower |
My experience with Windows 7 and Ubuntu 11.04 on a HP Elitebook 6930p is:
Windows 7:
It never managed to recognize the 4GB RAM memory I have installed. Some major bug in the Win7 architecture prevented it from recognizing more than 3GB.
The LPR printer never worked properly at work. I had to uninstall the printer and install it EVERY day in order to have some print outs.
The latest Windows updates tried to install itself after start the computer. It took a lengthy process of 10 minutes to Apply all the updates just to tell me at the end that a major problem appeared and all the updates need to be UNINSTALLED. At the end of the day, when closing the computer to go home, the automatic updates tried unsuccessfully to install again the SAME updates with the same loss of time. The funny thing is that one just accept these miserable situations with Windows just because of ignorance of the existance of other alternatives.
Ubuntu 11.04
I tried Ubuntu using a bootable USB. I expected to have all kind of troubles with drivers, but I was wrong. Everything worked fine. All the memory was detected, actually all the hardware was found correctly. I was in particular impressed by the video driver developed by the community which works better than the one provided by ATI, at least for my Mobility Radeon HD 3400. I can say it was love at first say.
The Unity environment in Ubuntu is fantastic. I installed the Compiz configuration manager and played with many options for the windows, customizing here and there. One thing that really makes a hug difference is the workspaces. Switching between the 4 screen workspaces basically multiplies the usable screen by 4 and increases productivity as one requires less clicks or keyboard short-cuts to move between programs. This technology really makes obsolete the Windows GUI. It is actually amazing that they have not been able to implement something like that for Windows during all this time.
I really dont miss any Microsoft program as there is alternatives for almost everything. Most of my colleagues uses Windows. Sometimes I need at work to open and work on their files. Most of the time I get away with libreoffice. When that does not work, I use a Virtual machine with Windows XP.
The only thing I miss is an update of skype. As Skype was bought by Microsoft I guess we will never see another update and eventually the program will die.
Get a life… Another blog with Linux loving D’s … Install Windows 7 64- bit to recognize more than 3GB.. I have 15+ years of experience with PCs and Mac.. Ubuntu is for people without a responsible job.. Just to explore new things u can use linux, for Productivity and making money.. U will have to install either windows or mac
“15 years” If a computer was 15 years old would you trust it?
Besides you don’t even have “15+ years” of experience with Linux, or Ubuntu… I doubt you even have 15+ years of experience, you probably just chose your age… Even if you did how does that qualify you to make decisions on something you never even tried? And “get a life” your the one who’s on here actually being a “D” with a user name which implies your not even 15.
Most windows programs will work fairly well under WINE in Linux and most popular apps work perfectly, or someone’s made an equivalent app. Besides I found Ubuntu way easier to install than the nightmare that is windows or OSX. I had to install windows 7 on a friends computer, after hours of waiting we got it installed only to find it was ridiculously laggy on his older hardware (in this case intel core 2 duo). He gave up on it, let me install ubuntu and we did it in 15min, he hasn’t had any problems since… I struggle to do simple configuration tasks in windows 7, it takes me a few seconds in Ubuntu and I can do so much more.
Besides if Linux is sooooooo bad for productivity and making money why are major companies moving to Red Hat Linux, like some of the largest stock-exchange companies in the world? Besides neither Apple nor Microsoft are incredibly innovative anymore. Notice how KDE 4 looks almost exactly like Windows 7, fun fact it was release in 2008.
Besides, “People without a responsible job” … What? Really? Where did that come from… Not sure if your trolling or just a retard. If by responsible job you mean income and in general how much money people are willing to spend on things then you should check out the Linux donations vs Windows donations for the “Humble Indie Bundle” Linux users payed, on average about 3 to 4 times as much as windows users…
i don’t blame srkdon007…his name suggests his taste 😛
Rage much?
Uh… Troll? I hope so, because Linux is used for MOST things we do these days, whether you realize it or not.
Ubuntu is for people with out responsible jobs!!! Comments in ignorance like that lets me know you cannot help with any issues
Windows never recognizes all of the installed RAM because some is used for star up bious right away so you only see available ram-But I can install hardware and software in windows where a world community of developers cannot get a simple printer installed which is a common issue thats not fixed So the ease of use line is a lie-You really need to know Unix coding to be proficient in Linux- and where in th $%^* is that easier- then Windows (which can be messy in other areas but you do not need Unix coding training to solve issues I have to keep a dual boot system so I can use printer scanner and what happens when I try to go to blue tooth. Also the Linux community seems not to have it together anyway. The same old tired solutions that do not work!!! And they seem not to be reading the questions-(users give a full description of the issue; and get asked to be told what the issue’s) must be a lot of know it alls who might be clogging these forums with rubbish instead of letting the real in the know deal with it, help is appreciated- but stay out of the way please- you all just give the same answers that are not working!!!! READ READ READ before you put your mouth in motion and stop clogging the help forums with WHATS NOT WORKING ANSWERS. May be there might be a solution that works- I do not know but what I do see is forums on Ubuntu that have not had messages for quite some time and see a lot of post on non Ubuntu Community pages
I have been using Linux for last 7 years, but windows 7 has made a fair improvement. I know Linux is customizable to the level you want, but it is still not for all. Sometimes it can not catch with the new hardware release due to availability of drivers for only popular platforms like windows, and the hardware vendor did not considered Linux as a viable option. Sometimes old hardware even may be unusable due to lack of knowledge of configuration by the general user. All the popular distributions don’t test their software on old hardware. They just consider it is usable. And it is only in papers. I mean a general user would not know how to turn of the acpi or change settings to their grub. Linux has improved and even almost all of the super computers of world run Linux. But still it is not general purpose operating system for general user. Windows might have more hardware issues, but its the vendor’s responsibility to provide the hardware support else their devices will lose the market. Since Linux users are very low percentage of total computer users, they are not considered as possible market. Ubuntu is one distribution that will make people want to use Linux, because unlike others it is a true desktop operating system and almost every software that is for Linux has Ubuntu packaging. Which some years back was only for fedora. Since windows has a huge market share game companies don’t have to spend extra bucks to make it cross platform or even have a Linux version. Distributed development and community is a good thing, but sometimes certain things become so dependent that the end product becomes crappy. E.g. Till july Linux kernel did not have good support for sandy bridge processors. So the new notebook like Dell who ship Linux, are shipping Ubuntu 11.04 32-bit rather than 64-bit on a 64-bit system. Since kernel did not have such support Ubuntu 11.04 has been very unsuccessful in regards to hardware support. Out of the box 3D graphics won’t work well. Some computers even won’t boot after installation. Even the propitiatory drivers provided by ATI would not work. Fan would run in full throttle. Does anyone want to ruin their laptop or desktop just for the love of an operating system. If you install softwares like lm-sensors and install rc-7 of linux kernel you will get improvement, but this process is still not for a general user. Tell me how would you suggest any new computer user to use Ubuntu. Do you still say format windows and install Linux. Or better than that you may use Linux yourself, whatever other might use. You even don’t want to lecture everyone about Linux, or showoff. Just use it and if they ask, just say it is a free operating system. If they want to learn more, then you can elaborate to the point you don’t feel embarrassed or you embarrass others. You know games won’t run as great in windows, so if they ask if any games run, then you can say, I use windows for playing games, its just for internet. So you won’t have to be embarrassed. And if you use free software like geany, notepad++, eclipse, chromium, xchat, virtualbox, inkscape, wget, cygwin, python, perl, php, java you are already supporting the open source movement. You may introduce your friends to those software, when they want to do the work as efficiently as you. For that first you have to stop advertising about how great the theme on a particual Linux is and actually start doing some cool Linux stuffs, by using these software and occasionally, introducing to non Linux users. One thing you can’t do on windows that you can do only on Linux is kernel development. For everthing else there is a windows port or an alternative.To add Microsoft is the 5th biggest contributor to the Linux kernel. So there are people even in Microsoft who eat, drink and sleep Linux. My point is use what ever you feel comfortable at.
You never went over gaming.
I really want to try ubuntu.. I hate costs in the first place. I am with the ever popular XP. I wonder how can I make it a dual OS so I can easily switch OS whenever I wanted or I needed to.
Google dual boot windows ,ubuntu .. VERY EASY TO DO.
Go to ubuntu website, they have Wubi, a program that installs in windows like an app and provide dual boot at startup to run Ubuntu.
You can also make Ubuntu live cd and just run it from there to test it and see if you like it.
One word…NETFLIX! Ubuntu fail.
Netflix is coming to ubuntu.
Do your research before spouting crap.
Linux simply sucks.
Oh! come on ..now it’s time to accept the truth.. 🙂
Hmm… Did you do anything on the internet today? I guess you didn’t.
Completely agree, I recently moved to Ubuntu11.04 due to an XP crash. Even though I’ve used ubuntu in the past (7.04 upwards) Each new version never ceases to amaze me, and i’ve now decided to move to a full ubuntu installation. It’s fast, free and the new unity interface is extremely enjoable
I disagree with almost everything here.
As for control, Windows can be edited… from Windows. If you have any idea what you’re doing, you can do anything. I have also programmed plenty of side applications for Windows. Possibility there is pretty much endless.
As for cost, yeah Windows does cost money, but in my opinion, it is worth it. Considering that Windows is the most popular, most productive OS out there.
Fun; you say Windows has a lack of things to do and try out? LOLWUT? Windows has BILLIONS of applications to try. Alongside with Steam, you can play any game on Windows.
Security. Windows has a problem with Viruses. There is always a way to get rid of them, but they are a pest. The reason that viruses exist on Windows and not on Ubuntu? Well could it be that the development tools are much better? Could it be because windows is wayyyyyy more popular than Ubuntu? Yes. If Ubuntu was the main OS in the world, it would have plenty of viruses.
Diversity. Once again, BILLIONS OF APPLICATIONS. How can you say nothing new to try? Choose from a menu? Yeah that menu with billions of things is damn bigger than Ubuntu’s few thousand.
Software = Windows. If there is not a Windows version of something, then it fails. Apple is decent competition, but Windows is still more popular. There is a reason iPads/iPhones/iPods are all Windows compatible. Apple knows that they are hurting themselves if they don’t have Windows compatibility.
Ease of Use. Computers can do anything. It’s hard to make them easy to use. My opinion here is that they are both fine. Windows is amazing with drivers and such, however. But eh, nothing big here.
Stability goes to Windows here. Unless you have some serious shit hardware, I have found windows is hard to literally “crash”. You can get errors and not responding applications, but usually not a complete freeze up.
Drivers = Windows 7. done.
Starting time. I DO AGREE that windows is somewhat slow. However much Microsoft tries to use Sleep and Hibernate (Those help a ton), they still lack in boot time.
development tools are pretty much the same for both. it has nothing to do with viruses. you don’t need an IDE to write a virus
woah… for some users windows 7 might be alright .. But for me , LINUX is just awesome … Because the real power of Linux lies on the Terminal not in the GUI… LINUX teaches you to think Deeply !!!… I agree windows has a nice GUI ,but underneath it’s all about BUGS … Windows is good for you not for the HACKERS !!… 99% of the Supercomputers run Unix and LINUX , do you know it?? wt if you use windows for those supercomputers ?? all servers will be fucked up coz windows has totally a fucked up code…. can u ever install windows for a Web server or email server ?? haha… yeah probably you can install windows for a server but the thing is , viruses will shit on the windows source code …. lolz.. IT”S DE END OF WINDOWS AND BILL GATES !!
REST IN PEACE BILL GATES !!
This is for You all WIndows guys : Keep in mind that:: BUTTONS AND MOUSE POINTERS ARE FOR IDIOTS … LINUX ARE FOR HACKERS and PROFESSIONALS..
If I ever get a supercomputer for mathematical/physics calculations or a corporation webserver or email server then I’ might use linux but most people want ease of use. The last part of your post is just childish nerdy drivel, I zoned out sorry..
Yeah they got the servers but the admin therer has training in Unix code;
But for a PC- harwaere /software intalls- WATCH OUT- you could be stuck on your own!!!
I dub the, sir point-and-click. are you seriously trying to say windows is more reliable than a linux based OS? LMAO that’s got to be one of the funniest things i’ve heard to date.
viruses? mate, MAC OSX is a -nix based system. can’t remember exactly what but i think you’ll find BSD/Unix or something? why is that do you think? why do a good 80% of the word web servers run linux/apache as opposed to windows/iis? you say indows is more reliable? mate see how many stats you can find on up time for windows servers and then see what you can find on linux?
ubuntu is built on the same basic kernel as all them servers
Ubuntu = linix
win7 = NT
you’re not seriously trying to compare linux and NT in terms of reliability are you? that’s laughable!
sorry mate but windows is for lazy people that’s why it’s so popular, linux based distributions are for people that have at least half a clue, whice you clearly do not.
drivers = win7 done?
i installed win7 and had NO networking
ubuntu right out of the box
you need to do your homework my friend
Unix based is much harder to wright malware for because of lptables can create a internal firewall between os services- Windows rush product out and fix the weaknesses as it goes along with patches (which they could not get fixed in Vista- Vista reminded me of Ubuntu- supposed to work with other hw and sw; but what a mess; thats whyW7 was put out)- leaving you vulnerable until anti malwar developers get from th pc geeks community that a new bug is out then they can write definitions to fight that bug-that take up to several months. So Unix /Linux is safer by the architect of the os where say Windows 7 admin is a part of the OS you use even though you may not be in the admin screen- malware can still get to itto take control of the PC. Unix/Linux admin is like- in its own space so if a virus does get in it gets stuck in the part of the OS that has no Admin access
Biased article!
Wow, could you be any more biased?
The software support on Windows is a trillion times better than ubuntu. Sure, ubuntu leverages the OSS ecosystem of Linux. But it’s that same OSS ecosystem that fails HARD at capturing mainstream usage. Your point about no dev tools being available for Windows is outright false. Windows has cygwin, which means it has gcc and a posix OS, which means you can install pretty much any Linux tool, therefore Linux does NOT have a “better” compiler, because Windows has gcc too (MingW, anyway). It has all the same editors too, so you fail there– FWIW, as a developer, I’d much rather use Visual Studio for C dev than emacs or Vim, but that’s me. And of course, one of the most obvious omissions: No steam. Want to play *any* games? You’re pretty much only going to be playing Tux racer, or maybe some various older Id titles.
In short, your review of application support makes it sound even. It’s not even close. Linux is a graveyard of half finished applications with poor user interfaces. Windows has a collection of pay, free and even open source applications, and a much larger ecosystem, not to mention a huge community of people porting Linux apps to Windows. If you’re an non-programmer end-user, you’d be stupid to choose Ubuntu over Windows unless you literally had $0 in your bank account.
Well you know who wrote the GCC code ??? it’s not BIll gates, it’s Linus toravalds , the founder of the LINUX KERNEL …woah… for some users windows 7 might be alright .. But for me , LINUX
is just awesome … Because the real power of Linux lies on the
Terminal not in the GUI… LINUX teaches you to think Deeply !!!… I
agree windows has a nice GUI ,but underneath it’s all about BUGS …
Windows is good for you not for the HACKERS !!… 99% of the
Supercomputers run Unix and LINUX , do you know it?? wt if you use
windows for those supercomputers ?? all servers will be fucked up coz
windows has totally a fucked up code…. can u ever install windows for a
Web server or email server ?? haha… yeah probably you can install
windows for a server but the thing is , viruses will shit on the windows
source code …. lolz.. IT”S DE END OF WINDOWS AND BILL GATES !!
REST IN PEACE BILL GATES !!
This
is for You all WIndows guys : Keep in mind that:: BUTTONS AND MOUSE
POINTERS ARE FOR IDIOTS … LINUX ARE FOR HACKERS and
PROFESSIONALS..
“Windows 7 is very stable as compare to Ubuntu 11.04, so well suitable for production environment.”
I dont agree. We see Windows giving huge problems than Ubuntu. We are using Ubuntu on our 70 production machines for last 3 years.
Hrishi
this is incredibly bias
Indeed. Completely biased. Saying Ubuntu has more software than windows. Fail
I very much like Ubuntu 11.04 with unity, no problem at all with 11.04 when using any ATI based video, both old or new hardware, I like the 3D games available with Ubuntu best, they are fun and I feel happy when playing them. How many times can you play the same shooting games with only a different title in Microsoft.
I do like W7 now that they have copied so much from Linux, but I always install Ubuntu as dual boot and prefer using Ubuntu now that 11.04 with Unity is available. And Ubuntu gets all my drivers and installs them automatically, W7 can’t do that. The newer versions of Ubuntu install just like any application from within Microsoft, I like to have three partitions, one with Microsoft, one with Ubuntu, and one to share all my DATA, and Movies, and Music between the Operating Systems, that way when a new version of Ubuntu comes out I can first test run as a CD boot, then if I like it better that the version of Ubuntu currently using I can delete the old version in Microsoft and install the new version as an application from within Microsoft, that way I don’t loose anything and I don’t have any upgrade issues, and I always get the newest and best drivers from the newest Ubuntu automatically.
Ubuntu is very user friendly, more than any operating system, and when my Unix & Linux using Nephew visits he can do his command line thing without needing to install anything, it is all there already, he also only uses command line in Microsoft, his Microsoft looks like Unix OS. So with Ubuntu 11.04 serious Unix and Linux users can have it their way without changing my beautiful and very functional easy and fun to use GUI, Ubuntu 11.04 with Unity does everything that I wished W7 could do.
There must be the worlds best genius at work behind Ubuntu!
I had to correct a couple things I wrote below,
It is actually only two partitions that I use, one for Microsoft and one for all my DATA, movies, photos and music, when I install Ubuntu as an ordinary application it makes its own space inside Windows, and gives me a boot screen to choose the OS I want to boot.
To comment to someone below, if you have Dial up ISP you can go to the official Ubuntu web page and request any version on CD to be mailed to you all free, you can also donate a little to help them out if you love Ubuntu as much as I do. The CD can run as a test of the OS and remember it is much smoother and faster when installed to a hard drive or USB pen drive. If you like it and want to install as an ordinary Windows application that is easy to delete later, then just reboot back to Windows put the CD back in, (it opens the CD tray by itself when shutting down), But it will show your choices of how to install or just run, follow the easy menus that come up and it reboots automatic a time or two.
If you have DSL or similar, just click on the buttons and copy the file that downloads, (ISO), then in Microsoft open Nero or what ever and choose Burn to Disc, then point it to where you downloaded the Ubuntu ISO and double click on that and put in a blank CD to burn. Now you have your own copy and can burn again for a friend.
To the other guy below, if you want to play U-tube or any other thing on Ubuntu just click on a U-tube video it will pop up that it isn’t capable yet, the next day or less after rebooting there will be an update to download, say yes to all and it is ready with anything you tried previously. Or you can search through the millions of free applications that are showing in your Ubuntu application folder and find the favorite one through comments and install it yourself. Very easy and better display than Microsoft.
Give it time, you will find you can do more with Ubuntu than you can with Microsoft and all for free, when you get real good you can even join to help make changes in the next release or even some application, you will find a new world opening up for you.
What is windows?? most of servers of internet use linux, wonder why
because Linux is incredibly more secure, cheap, Fun and of course more suitable (because it provides more features and flexibility) for server environment.
I love Ubuntu 11.04. It does everything I need (I’m not that big on games, other than Quake Live and online chess). Unity wasn’t received that well in the Linux community, but I for one am hoping it will be accepted and adopted by the wider (mainstream) community. I for one am hoping Ubuntu achieves its goal of 200 million users by 2015.
Colleagues at work look at Ubuntu 11.04 running on my Sony Vaio F Series with wonder and awe, and I can do my online banking without fear of a trojan or some malware logging my keystrokes :).
in my very humble opinion your review should be based on other people opinions and reviews instead of your single point of view
Quite Honestly, Linux and Windows 7 are both great OSs. The reason i prefer Win 7 however, is that its something i can take and use straight away. I dont need any prior experience. As pointed out, Linux is for those with the technical knowhow….if you really want to get stuff done anyhow. I’ve learnt my lesson. I have a brand new HP Probook, and ive used the Linux Wubi install before. But this time i wanted to dual boot, just as a way of having something as a back-up. But…during the install, i somehow wrote over my windows boot folder -_-” and now……I CANT BOOT INTO WINDOWS!!! I shall fix this. But word to the wise, Linux is a really powerful and great OS to have and enjoy….but you need to know what youre doing. *walks off fuming*
I like open source, and I like the idea of Linux. Ubuntu in particular has made great strides in user-friendliness, but for the average user it’s not there yet. And if your interested in music production on a Linux-based system, forget it. Linux supports only basic hardware and the applications currently available are little more than toys.
On the other hand, Linux has a lot of potential and I’m looking forward to the fast-approaching day when it is ready for the general public.
Side notes:
– This article is terribly biased.
– As soon as you say “Windows and Security do not appear together in a single sentence” they do. That kind of statement is the epitome of contradiction. Just had to satisfy my pedantism.